9-28-24 How Bachelor Nation Fans May Decide The Election - A Talk About Reality TV & Politics with Reporter Juliana Kaplan

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Welcome to the Rush Hour, your daily dose of pop culture for your Rush Hour ride. Buckle up and enjoy the drive with your host, stand up comedian, Dave Neal. Ladies and gentlemen, we're so excited today to have a reporter for Business Insider. Her name is Juliana Kaplan. How are you? I'm good. I'm good.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm genuinely so excited. Oh, how nice. Well, I loved your recent article called the bachelor election, how the reality TV show became the pivotal demographic in the 2024 election. Uh, I love when we combine the bachelor talk with real life. So tell me, are you a bachelor fan?

Is that why you put two and two together? Uh, yes, unfortunately, I'm actually wearing my pit dweller shirt today, um, for my gamer bros as friends. But, yes, I am a longtime reality TV watcher, much to, I think, my parents chagrin, um, and anyone who has to talk to me. But I am a huge bachelor nation fan. I think I started watching In high school early college.

So Right around the nick faya era. So yes, and i've been there ever since You know, and I love what you mentioned in your article that There are so many small niches in the world. You can have a content creator who just covers K pop or Netflix or Hulu, but The Bachelor is one of the last fully, like, known water cooler conversations.

So, um, that, that, that, it's kind of like withstood the, the, the world of streaming TV. It's like old school, uh, like old school TV that people still talk about. That's pretty rare in today's world. Yeah, a hundred percent. I feel like, for me, I remember a very distinct moment, like when I first started watching The Bachelor, I was also, and continue to be, a pretty big, like, fan of RuPaul's Drag Race, and at the time, that was, I think, obviously, like, a much more segmented fan base, um, in terms of, like, What you were seeing with The Bachelor, and I remember half of the fun of watching The Bachelor is like, you go on Twitter, you read all of the recaps, you read Ali's recap, like, over at Vulture, whatever, um, like, there's all these characters, there's all this, now all these TikToks, all these Instagrams about it, and it's kind of fun to feel like you're participating in this, like, wider cultural moment, right?

Like, I feel like, especially with the way Twitter has become segmented too, I've been thinking about this. A lot, but like it was and is the monoculture like all of these other little esoteric shows even the white lotus when it first began right there would be a very devoted like group of people tweeting about it or posting about it i love the only murders in the building subreddit like they're pretty robust but you could go about like your day to day life and never really encounter those right but like any social media platform you're gonna find like some bachelor influence some bachelor influencer You're gonna be talking about it.

I mean, my parents texted me actually about only murders in the building. They're like, they made a golden bachelorette joke when they were introducing Steve Martin and Martin short, like, It really is so baked into the culture. Yeah. Well, you know what it is, is we all know the premise. There's roses, there's breakups.

It's just like, it's so the brand awareness is so big, but like, yeah, like you mentioned, there are, there are shows like, um, I watched the show alone, which is like a survival show. They have their own spinoff podcast. And like, I went, I I'll always look at the different podcasts to see how many reviews they have, or like, are people watching this and.

Are they? No. I mean, it's hard to, it's hard to like build a big audience as a content creator with some of the niche shows, because even, even the Netflix shows like love is blind, it's a huge show, but they dump all the episodes out all at once. So it doesn't command In my eyes, the cultural conversation, the way The Bachelor does where you have six and a half days to discuss between episodes when there's something like hotbed happening.

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And it's really, I don't know. It's really interesting to me too, because I think The Bachelor is such a holdover from like this early 2000s. kind of reality tv culture where reality tv was just and any television could be a lot more omnipresent like we're still talking about jersey shore to this day for instance like that's still a cultural reference we're making i also think there was a really interesting moment in reality tv when i was little i watched the tyra show like fairly religiously like in middle school which What that did to my psyche, who's to say, but there was this like era of reality TV in the two thousands where it's like, let's kind of like do experiments on humans.

Right. Like, uh, where you would be doing all these crazy things to people in the whole premises. Like what would happen if this thing, you know, if you were to pretend to be like, not the popular girl for the day, this is like a crazy tire show episode where somebody gets like facial prosthetics put on and goes to high school as like an ugly person.

Um, right. But there was this kind of like, Oh, we have this platform. We have this ability, like, let's do human experiments. And that's kind of like what the bachelor was born out of in a way. Like there is obviously the match show and there's like dating tradition, but the bachelor is like, let's take it one step further.

And it's funny now because we see it as kind of like the old stalwart, but like, because we have love is blind, too hot to handle, perfect match, all of these things. But at the time, like, this is kind of a crazy premise. Right? So I feel like, also because all of that other reality TV has kind of, it's ended, it's lost to the sands of time, whatever.

Um, but The Bachelor is still going pretty strong, and then, as we talked about in the article too, has been pretty good at like, courting. A new fan base, which so it's like such a cultural product. Um, yeah, I don't know. I think I lost the point That's the show for you, uh, but you're so right it's interesting because I think because the show is so sanitized You know, it's a disney show that yeah, they're talking about fantasy suites But there's so much context that that it remains up for interpretation That you really do see all the commentary spill out into the social media what I find interesting You Is that the show like any corporation is going to do its best to just maximize profits, right?

Corporations are psychopathic. They don't feel feelings. And I find that to be very interesting because that's what led to some of the issues. They know their audience is primarily white women and then they weren't. Providing diversity to tell new stories and possibly find new voices. Um, what I've noticed though, is with podcasting, I believe skews a little more liberal than maybe YouTube, which might be more centrist.

I'm progressive, but my audience is all over the map. The only thing they have in common is it's 92 percent women. So how do you think the show navigates the Ethical conversations of inclusion and equality and things like that with also trying to just be a show and stay on air. I'd love your take as an inequality reporter to, to look at where the bachelor was maybe five years ago versus where it is now with inclusivity of non white people on the show.

And what do you think it was that sort of forced that change? I think it was. almost as coalition between the contestants and the viewers. Um, I remember for instance, back in 2020, obviously, well, to back up a little, you know, in 2018, and we talk about this quite a bit in the article, there was sort of this first like political fissure.

And I think a lot of that was chalked up to the fact that Becca Cooper was like a pretty outspoken Hillary supporter, fairly liberal, um, which, you know, from a lead. We've definitely like had leads who have said a little bit about their political beliefs, but I think it was a little bit, you know, surprising, perhaps pleasantly so, because I think it's always nice to learn a little bit more about where people are coming from.

And then it became very clear that her front runner and eventual winner, Garrett, had very different political ideas. They were sort of on different ends of the spectrum. And I think that there was obviously a lot of criticism for him for the kind of content he was engaging in, but. It was still very rooted in like, are they going to be able to be a match, you know, because they're coming at it from very different angles, which as we read about is like a very American conundrum.

You're going to meet people who are not in your political bubble, but then in 2020, like, and that sort of set the groundwork for people, I think, to be really hyper vigilant about what's going on with contestants and what are they signaling from what they're posting and what they're liking. And who they're following.

These are all things we've seen come up in sort of like the fan communities at large. And then obviously, you know, in 2020, there's this sort of larger racial reckoning, and the Bachelor throws Matt James in as their first male black bachelor and I think the producers have talked about this too in the past that that was a season that I think had its own issues in terms of the support that they provided to him but this was also a really pivotal a really pivotal moment because That social media tracking like revealed some Even more serious things regarding his eventual winner.

Um, and I actually read his book. His thoughts on it are super interesting Like I highly recommend everybody read Matt James's book But it was the first time we had a contestant coming out and saying like what I did was wrong Like these things are wrong. It is due to these larger issues of inequity and racism baked into american life Like I didn't think it was basically like I didn't even know it was wrong when I did it.

And that's kind of a larger issue. And that, I think, was very representative of a lot of larger political sentiment at the time. You know, we saw the huge Black Lives Matter protests happening, and a lot of people, and also to your point, a lot of corporations, really being forced to publicly reckon with the ways that they had kind of upheld Those foundations of white supremacy and then there is the Chris Harrison of it all where the host who I think it was fairly beloved Um, it still seems to be like pretty good friends with quite a few people in bachelor nation Went on Rachel Lindsay's podcast at this point.

Rachel Lindsay is kind of like the designated speaker for all things race in The Bachelor, which is its own issue because if you cast a few people of color, then it all becomes one person's job and that's a fair burden to put on anybody. Um, and Chris Harrison, I think this is the first time like he's being sent as a representative of the show.

Right. And he gets pretty worked up about it. Like he is really defending these things that even the contestant herself, Rachel was not defending. And that kind of became this really pivotal moment. And at that time we suddenly see contestants from like past seasons. Like I think we see the women of Matt James's season, if I'm recalling correctly, like putting out a mass statement being like, we do not agree with this, we see.

The men, um, from, I think, like, Clay sha's season, from Claire and Tayshia's season, we see, like, these coalitions of, you know, the very few people of color who have been contestants on The Bachelor, and at the same time, there's sort of like this parasocial feeding into it of the fans being like, we support you, we support this, and then kind of like this ever iterating cycle.

And I think that having the reason that the bachelor works Ben Higgins talked about this with me is that people want to see themselves in the contestants on the screen. They like this relatability. We obviously see as Game of Grosses talks about parasocial players, who are the ones that have the biggest success afterwards.

Like somebody like Hannah Brown, who is immensely charming and fun and the whole point is like, she seems like somebody who you'd want to be. friends with, like, she's making all these funny TikToks of Tyler, will they, won't they, right? And so all of a sudden, like, the fans who've been identifying so strongly with this, and had also been kind of dictating the narrative in some ways with, like, forcing them to talk about Garrett on stage, all of a sudden they're like, if we band with the contestants, we can have this power to kind of rewrite that narrative.

And that, to me, I think was a really pivotal moment that was also very interestingly reflective of politics at large, because I think If we look at this moment in, like, the broader world right now, there's a lot of talk about, like, rolling back of DEI initiatives, that, you know, the DEI era is done, um, and so on, which, I don't know, a very interesting through line to me, but, Even with Jen's most recent season where like they did talk about having their first asian american bachelorette.

Jen was great. Um, Very randomly. I actually bumped into her while I was home in boston Um, and we had been at the same cycling class. She looked amazing I was like, I don't know how you did that but to that end like They're touting, it's this historic season. Obviously that season kind of like ends in this crazy ruins.

The men, you know, plenty of stuff out there on them. There was also, I think, a lot of people caught on that a few of the men said they were expecting to see a white lead and specific women from past like eras of the franchise. And at the same time that was still never confirmed. really addressed in like the absolute decimation of the season falling apart, right?

Like, I think I've seen a lot of fan discussion of how it always feels like women of color come in last compared to their white counterparts in dating. One of my friends was actually saying it feels as though The Bachelor has entered into its like, you know, Obama era where it was this idea of like, oh, we're in this post racial era Like we have an asian american bachelorette and that's so normal that we never really need to talk about race again um and then it's very interesting I was talking to two black girls one rose where Like we obviously like have a lead of color and there's still I don't know like the ways that some of the attacks on different women of color and women in the franchise um Also mimic those that people are making against uh, kamala harris Like, I mean, it's not an exact analog right now, but I think I've seen plenty of people very easily turning on Jen being like, she's in it for the clout.

She's in it for the dancing. Yeah, no, you're right there. Well, there was a sort of a tokenism that was, oh, you would never expect the, the, uh, contestant of color to get past the fifth round because it was kind of like, bring him in and here can be my seven final white choices. And that, that in part was due to the sort of.

Casting that wasn't being done. Like Rachel Lindsay said, they weren't, they didn't cast her season. They didn't cast black men that wanted to date a black woman. They were, you know, they weren't, they weren't kind of going to that next level of like finding the contestants that worked there. And that's why with Matt James and he was a.

He was, I mean, call it what it is. They, they rushed him to hire him as the lead during the height of the Black Lives Matter movement. That to me doesn't deserve a pat on the back. That's like, we're fifth, we're 10 years too late. Let's just fix the problem now. And then with Jen. And people get very mad at me for saying this, but she's well known to be their third choice.

So they don't get like a cake from me that they, that they're finally having an Asian American lead when it wasn't even something that they were, they were literally like the day before going to have Daisy and Maria. Um, so it's like, I don't give them, you know, I don't give them ever any credit, but I think like you're saying, you have to, as an audience, you have to speak about these things because their change won't come unless the audience demands it.

And the change doesn't need to be superficial. It needs to be deeper and better, um, casting situations where you can really get people that live in these worlds of, of diversity and live in a world where they can see themselves dating somebody either Of their race or outside their race, like the conversation happens because of the lack that we see on the screen.

So it's not like, it's not like the audience is like, you know, cause some people will make it seem like, Oh boy, you know, you make everything about race and it's like, well, it doesn't have to be if the conversation is already happening, but it's just a response to the, to that lack that we see out there and, um, So when you talk about like DEI for, for people in the audience that might have a misconception of what it is, or, or just the idea behind it, the simple term people use is diversity higher, which takes away from any merits someone would have.

So what are your thoughts on DEI? And have you noticed that that's sort of incorporated into the casting process in a way that it wasn't before? Yeah, that's a good question, and I actually will say, what they're doing with the casting on Grant's season does make me feel a little bit optimistic, because I think, When we talk about DEI in the world outside of The Bachelor, like, so much of the issue of making workplaces, organizations, spaces, like, actually reflective of the diversity of the country and, like, who they're supposed to be speaking to and who they're supposed to be representing is that through, like, myriad systemic issues, there's just not that pipeline of candidates who might think, like, this is for me, or have historically been like, this is not a place for me, and kind of laying the groundwork to Make sure that those candidates are like in the pipeline and creating a robust pipeline because it's not going to be like and if you build it They will come situation which I think has been the bachelors excuse for a while like plenty of people of color I'm sure are watching the show and say like well, they only go for you know, white people who look a certain way And I think that starting the casting process really early for grant season and being really explicit like that people are applying for grant has been a really pleasant surprise to me actually in terms of like if we're thinking about broader DEI like creating a pipeline of like not only people who are really specifically excited to be there for grant but like giving yourself the time to actually like probably like talk and sift through more applications and talk to people Who maybe, you know, in a past year, like wouldn't have applied or do that outreach with him.

So I think that that's actually like a good example of something that you could be doing. And I think there's also, I mean, I was talking to my friends and I think, I think this made it into the final cut of the article. I'm actually not sure, but this season was the first time I've ever seen a conversation on screen about faith where neither faith was Christian or like based in Christianity.

I'm Jewish, and I think it's very interesting to see the show's relationship to religions outside of sort of this like vague Christianity. Um, but between Jeremy and Jen, we had a conversation where Jen is Buddhist, Jeremy is Jewish, and to like actually have a faith based conversation where neither faith was Christian was like, I love it.

To me, I was like, Oh, wow. I actually feel represented. I feel like I saw lots of comments about that as well. You know, and it's like, and it's like for the producers, don't be afraid to take those risks just because your audience might have the, the, the largest demographic might be in evangelical South. It doesn't mean your audience can't play up to the level of learning about Buddhist culture or learning about, uh, you know, what a Vietnamese meal looks like on a hometown day.

Like, like let's all. Play to that higher intelligence. But I love what you mentioned about DEI and the pipeline of casting. It's kind of like this. I always look at like the term DEI, which is a term they're probably going to have to rebrand because it's already been sort of weaponized. But I look at that as like, well, you're just trying to find out.

Like if you're going to do a race, you want to bring as many contestants to the starting line to find out who's the fastest person. If seven white guys win the gold medal, well, clearly, you know, we're not inviting everyone to the race. So it's not about like the equity of outcome wherever, or excuse me, it's not the equality of outcome where everyone, um, it, you know, it's, it's, it's predetermined.

It's the, it's the equity of opportunity. And when you take Grant What they basically did was they ruined the surprise of who the Bachelor is going to be in exchange for trying to get more people to want to submit to be on his season. So you, you burn the element of surprise and people go, Oh, why are they surprising us?

But then they're going to get 50, 000 new submissions and they really just need to find five. They need five great people. The rest are filler villains and this and that. So yeah, it's a little early to make our speculations, but. All signs point to they're finally, um, doing the work to cast better people for the lead.

We have to admit, I mean, Jen's, Jen's men were not cast for her. Who knows if it would have been different, but like, if they weren't there for her, You could almost understand the morale of the room was like not all hyped up in in the competitive juices weren't there for her So like that's not her fault if I if people were expecting grant and then they got me they'd be like We don't want this white podcaster guy.

We wanted the tall finance guy, you know, so it's really um It's really about them stepping up to like getting the best People there because the show is so dependent on the great characters Um, so When, so your mate, your article, we've talked about a bunch of different things, but your article talks about the election.

So make your case for how the bachelor could sway the election. Because I found that very interesting in an election that could be decided by tens of thousands of votes. Yeah, well, first of all, I mean, This is like, key programming for at least the Harris Falls campaign to be, uh, advertising against. And I'm very curious, I would love to actually hear from your viewers.

So here in New York, I don't think we saw any Harris Falls advertising. This makes sense, we are not a swing state. Um, But I know that they did a huge spend on the Golden Bachelorette. They did this huge spend, I think, on the End of Gen season. So clearly, like, somebody over there was like, this, you know, demographically is important to us.

I think it was the shows that they were targeting outside of, like, political programming. So, you know, outside of your Fox News, MSNBC, whatever, you know, it was like The Simpsons. The bachelorette and like love and hip hop Atlanta, which I thought was very interesting. Um, but I think to kind of like the larger point in terms of what this means for the election, a really interesting sort of shift to me was that I, at least my perception of bachelor contestants was they are conservative until proven.

That's why like a Becca Kufrin is a, uh, A pleasant surprise, right? Because that's somebody where you're like, oh, this is a person who's fairly outspoken about politics, which I think is also like still relatively new. Like a lot of them are very, you know, I think representative of the American electorate and that they're like people who are from, you know, maybe the South, more middle America, who are not super politically.

Engage, which is fine. I think that's just like a good chunk of the American electorate at large Um, but I always like a bachelor contestant is conservative until proven not And I actually do think that that has switched up a bit over the last few years like the Garrett thing was such a big deal because that was obviously like indirect conflict with Becca's stated politics, but If we think about, I can name at least a few contestants over the past season or two who have allegedly been liking some right wing posts.

Um, I saw a Reddit rumor that one person who had been liking right wing posts and following right wingers did go onto Kamala's page and like every single post on there within a few hours. I have not independently verified that. If that's true, I think that is a very funny thing to do, but I do think that that is telling, right?

Like that, It is, oh, like, there's always going to be conservatives on The Bachelor, but it used to be such a big, like, it became a big deal when somebody was actually vocally conservative, and now people are like, oh, we know this to be true about conservatives and people on The Bachelor who are conservative, but it is now given, I think, amongst at least the, a slim majority of the fanbase, that that is not something they Agree with yeah, you know you see you do see this like sort of cultural divide because to be fair garrett was kind of called out for Problematic things that I would say don't necessarily Align with conservative values.

They were just like asshole like you could call them racist anti immigration types of things which which by the way with the current rhetoric would line up with Uh political issues like there's a lot of political issues that are weaponized And I like I would like do you think Do you think of a contest?

Cause I'm, like I said, I actually live in Tennessee now. I've lived here just for this year. I was in Los Angeles and I was, um, up in, uh, you know, Hamilton Heights near Columbia, I think is where you went to school, right? I was up there on one 40th. Like I was in, Oh my God, I used to be at one 41st. No way.

We were probably going to the same, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, plantain guy that sold, uh, whatever I filed the street meet on the corner. Uh, but I love, I, but so I come, I've kind of like as an adult lived in very blue. cultures, uh, politically speaking, but I do look and I always try to look in the other direction of like, um, sort of like what's, what would be so wrong if someone was just standard conservative, like, it almost feels like the bachelor contestants are in hiding because I think a lot of conservative values have been hijacked by the MAGA movement.

So it's almost like, are you conservative or are you MAGA? Because there are different, you know, if so, you know, and again, I do think the, I do think the, the old school conservative party has been hijacked and is dead. If someone's conservative because they want to spend less money on foreign wars, it's like, okay, but that's not what the Republican party wants to do.

You know? So it, it, it is. There, there, there could be so many more rich conversations, but I think we're so quick to judge what someone's values are, especially these people are in their, you know, early twenties, where they probably still have like residual values left over from their parents in some of these cases, you know, so I just look at it and I go was, I mean, was Garrett a horrible person?

I'm sure not because Becca stuck with him for a little bit, but then you get that, but then you get that pressure to go, are you going to change? Are you going to be better? Are you going to learn? So someone like Rachel Kirk Connell goes, she gave the most honest answer, which was, I had no idea what my blind spots were.

And I think as bachelor nation has shown, when you let somebody, when you give somebody the room for growth and take away ego and defensiveness, they're going to come to the side of, yeah, no planting. Plantation parties were super racist and super whatever, but I just had no idea, you know, so like I do, I do love when bachelor audiences reward the contestants for get for having that space to grow.

But as we see, sometimes. The answer the response from a bachelor contestant is to double down on their ego and double down on whatever their toxic belief is so it definitely but it definitely creates a what side are you on conversation every year when that when that when they announced the contestants and and we have to know I guess.

We have to know the political leanings of the lead to know what kind of contestants are going to want to choose So do you think now they're asking these sorts of questions in casting like politically before they even get that far? Do you think they enjoy the fact that this kind of comes out dramatically during this during the seasons?

Yeah, so my understanding actually reporting the story is that they do ask that I think that they Are asking this already of contestants. I think they have been for A little while, I think, and this is based off, a little on what I've heard, I mean, I think that probably a lead could come in and say like, I don't want to date any Republicans, I don't want to date any leftists, I think it's a question of like, whether that statement will be completely I think it's completely true.

Abided to, right? Because we were saying like, maybe they'll cast five people who they're like, these are people who are probably politically in the same sphere as this person, very much third type from what they've told us, geographically convenient, right? And then maybe they'll like, cast a few people who think very differently, I think, that And as to your point, some of the politics have amplified around, you know, race or racist statements, for instance, like we saw at least one person on Rachel Lindsay's season who came in with some pretty bad, uh, racist comments earlier.

And I think that perhaps the next step would be the understanding that just, like, politics have become so heightened that casting somebody who is opposite politically from the lead will not just like create drama, but like actual trauma. Oh yeah. Especially when they're so far like opposite that they're literally saying racist things and posting.

Yeah. Like, like Lee's situation was like, obviously one that should always be avoided because there's no nuance in those like, Oh, are you for like small business? You know, there's no nuance there. Um, and I feel like in most cases, Audiences are pretty reasonable from like some like a contestant having said something nine years earlier and apologizing for it.

And versus like, what are your beliefs now? You know, when you, when you talk about the election, I, I, like I said, in Tennessee, I'm shocked when I, when I get a Kamala Harris ad, because this is like a deep red state, but even a deep red state is still 6535. Like it's not 100 zero. So. You know, I wonder, I wonder if the, if, uh, you know, even though a state might not swing in one direction or the other for the president, if they're just still trying to slowly chip away at the, at, at that base and slowly start to grow.

I know in Texas, the democratic party wasn't really investing much money in the races there, but now they're showing it's actually not a. foregone conclusion that it'll go red. It'll, it's like leaning red, but there's like a Senate race that's up in the air. And like you mentioned with, um, in Atlanta reality show, like that's, yeah, if you're the bachelor you, or if you're Kamala Harris, you want to be advertising on a show that's going to have a good niche audience in Georgia.

I mean, yeah, we're talking 10, 000 votes decided can decide the election. And, um, And for, I think in the article you mentioned that, uh, Joey Graziede was probably like, tell me about that. You think, you think Kamala's team used him as like a campaign like strategy? So this actually predated her being the candidate.

This is what's really interesting to me. So this was right after his season had aired. So it wasn't like a preseason promo, but it was still at this point, Biden was the presumptive nominee. Cause this is back over Valentine's day. Like it was a Valentine's day tie. And I actually will say, I do think that the current white house and especially now, like the Harris falls team has been really adept at using influencers, um, and online celebrities to make a dent and reach people.

Um, I mean, we saw there was like an influencer pen at the DNC, right? All these influencers. And I think that that's, uh, like, I think that's generally a very smart way to reach younger people. I know also, like, the Trump campaign has been doing this as well with, like, different podcasts, um, and doing different things with different influencers.

But the Joey thing, I can't stress this enough, happened before Kamala was, uh, The nominee. Like, he was at the White House basically doing, like, a cute Valentine's Day video, and I think there's such interesting resonance to that now, because he did the video with Doug, um, Hop, who I think has now kind of spawned his own parasocial following, and Doug is, like, asking him for pointers on presenting a rose, and Joey's like, you're doing great, and then he presents it to Kamala, and the fact that a Bachelor may have literally presented.

Arose to the future president of the United States is crazy, like, I don't know and it's funny too because one thing that actually inspired me to do this article is like, as people might be able to tell, I Followed the Bachelor subreddit and on the subreddit people were like, oh my god, this is so fun This is so cute.

Like go Joey Love this and then he posted on Instagram like he co posted I think with like the VP's office or whatever and all of the comments because Joey's following is I think more representative of perhaps like Bachelor viewers, the Redditors, shout out to all of you. I think there may be, um, people who are a little more invested and a little more like deep in the pit freaks.

Um, but like Joey's followers, it's like, oh, I watched The Bachelor. I think Joey's cute. I will follow him. And a lot of the comments on that were people posting like puke emojis, being like, Joey, I thought you were better than this. Um, and to me, I was like, what an interesting display of the ways that this, like, fandom is still torn, you know?

Oh, no, you're, I, I see it firsthand because like I said before, you're not going to meet someone more progressive than I am when it comes to the, the policies I want for our country and the sort of like base level. Minimum wage, social programs and everything else raised by single mom, like, like, think we all, you know, could use a helping hand.

The rich don't pay enough to help the poor. That's where I stand. And I also think Jesus would have stood the same way, which is why I always rail against religious people to go like, look, Jesus is on my side here or whatever religion people want, like the sides on helping helping your neighbor. But I see my audience.

As across the spectrum from pretty far, right? I mean, this year I teamed up with a very Right leaning lady journalist, uh, as we cover the Clayton Eckerd case, and it ruffled a lot of feathers of my audience on my left. And I always just say this, like, Chris Harrison, his whole scenario, like you said, kicked off a big sort of chain of events that has led to a lot of change in, in, in, um, in the Bachelor world.

But. I think and I disagree with what Chris Harrison said, but I think if he was doing a long form conversation and not a 12 minute extra TV interview that he wouldn't have been so rushed and he would have prosecuted his point better that he was trying to make, which is that times change even over the last couple of years, times have changed a lot from what was acceptable.

Uh, not necessarily to the, to, to certain groups, but, but like, we look at Perez Hilton. We look at like, we used to accept horrible treatment of Britney Spears from Barbara Walters. So like from 2020 down to Paris Hilton, uh, 2020, the program. Journalists. There was a lot of blood ethically on people's hands from the way things were treated.

So I understand what Chris Harrison was trying to say, but he didn't do a good job of that. And I think what we're seeing now is channels like mine, channels like Game of Roses, channels that can say, you know what, we'll take two hours to talk about this are having more success than the 22nd TikTok video of A Joey handing a rose over and then getting the puke emoji.

Rose puke emoji is not like deep conversation. So I do think it's easier to get along and exist with people. You may disagree with. Um, because look, in the world we live in, you got to go out to, like, I love Pete Buttigieg, a pretty blue guy, right? I love that he goes on Fox News. You have to go and talk to people that don't already have your vote.

And the bachelor has that opportunity because it does have. A following like we started talking about. That is monolithic. That is not just niched down into, you know, uh, you know, this love is blind might, you know, might be this way. Political leaning versus whatever it is across the spectrum, the show itself wants nothing to do with politics, right?

Because they want to capture as many audiences possible to the point where I think I was the only one calling this out. I don't think anyone else called this out. There was a big race topic and the show did not address it on the after the final rose to the point where I think it led to Michelle Young calling them out.

Then the show addressed it on their podcast. So the podcast leans left just like Reddit leans left. So this, the show was able to not, not ruffle feathers with their They're sort of like 8 p. m. Whoever watches it live conservative audience and then, and then let, let the podcasters speak to their audience, which I think is like spineless, but I'm not surprised.

So you just get to see, you get to see the different factions of audience that listen and watch from different bubbles. And I think. The longer you're willing to speak to the bigger audience, the more reasonable people are. But just like Joey had the puke emoji, I get it all the time. I mean, I, I was, I, I, um, I, I had some pretty progressive videos last month that really, I lost hundreds of followers over that.

And then at the same time, I have the re the subreddit thinking I'm some conservative. You know, whatever they want me to be. So like there is so much, um, weaponization on the far ends of like an inability to have a conversation. I try to reject that for the 90 percent that I think are reasonable enough, including my Republican friends that'll still hear me talk.

Maybe one day they'll say, you know what, Dave, you got a point, but I'm not writing them off. And I wish the audience wouldn't write off people that might disagree that they might disagree with and just give people a chance to educate each other. I don't know. Maybe, maybe that's. Way too optimistic to look at in the, in the heightened political world we live in.

What do you think? Yeah, I don't know. I think that when all of the Chris Harrison stuff went down, I think it did evoke sort of a wider Issue in like the US political and not even just like political but like day to day landscape because like everything is obviously inherently political where it's kind of like I think there was almost a sentiment among people, especially people who watch The Bachelor.

Again, white women, speaking as a member of the community myself, where it's like if you find the one person who has caused this stripe, we can make some sort of change. And I think that that You know, when you look at the Chris Harrison stuff, the show sent him out as a representative. He said the things that he said that I think were personally incredibly jarring to hear.

And then the show was like, we have fired Chris Harrison. And I think he's like spoken about this too, where it's like, Chris Harrison is the host of your show, you know? He is one person. He, in fact, does not actually like control. I think every single aspect of the casting process and the choices that you've made and who you've chosen to platform.

Right. And I think looking at that during that same era, I was talking to Chad about this from Game of Roses and he does some really interesting stuff, talking to his right leading family. Um, and talking about very like polar opposites and, um, Like that moment feeling very, and during like the Trump era, especially like everything feeling so dire politically, like to your point, obviously like the MAGA movement has continued.

I think that there was a sentiment in. The 2020 election, right? That if we got this one guy out of office, right? We're going to fix everything. Um, which is just not really how like, I think anything. That's using a bandaid to fix something where you need to like really fix it from the inside out. And just like you were saying, I mean, Chris Harrison, that's like not liking, uh, the Presidential policies and firing the, um, you know, the press secretary.

It's like, but by all means, it could significant, it could, it could imply further change, but I think it was, like you said, people thought they just got the, the, the, the bad thing. And, and then it took still a few more seasons where I think at some point they finally hired a, a black producer, uh, you know, that they didn't have, so they weren't, you know, telling the stories in the right way to even start in, you know, so yeah, it's a, it's a good point that like these These conversations require, um, you know, it doesn't end.

There's no, there's no finish line to the conversations and those that might find it exhausting. You know, they might just have the privilege where it doesn't affect them. You know, it might not affect them to have a conversation about something so simple as, you know, um, making sure there's Equity of opportunity within the show, but I do think it'll make for a better version of the show.

Um, we got to get you going here, but uh, where can people where can people find you? I've really enjoyed if anyone hasn't already check out your business insider article But um, you definitely should talk more about the bachelor nation As sort of you know as it parallels to the uh to the uh, sort of demographics But I can't wait to hear your thoughts after the election.

Yeah. Oh my gosh Oh boy. Um You Yeah. But where can people find me? Um, I think I'm technically still on Twitter. I'm like, I have to check. I mean, you can find me primarily on businessinsider. com, Giuliana Kaplan. And I think my Reddit handle is actually the same. You found me via my work Reddit. Um, so you'll see me asking people all the time if they want to chat.

Uh, so feel free to reach out to me there. If you think you have a story I should look into. And on Twitter, it's at Juliana M. Kaplan. Um, yeah, but read businessinsider. com. Just go on the website, click on every single story. Yeah, it could, and it could, you know, it could be that your article was, uh, the thing that changed the election.

It could be that close. We'll have to see. I hope, I hope it's not that close, but we'll have to see. But great. Oh my God. Yeah. Any predictions that you want to make on, on which way it's going to go? No, I actually, this is my grounding exercise and I hope that it provides perhaps some comfort to everyone else.

Which is that, you know, obviously as a reporter, keeping up with the polling, keeping up with what the sides are saying, covering all of that. Um, as a human who exists in the world, I have just been doing a go back four years. To this month or like this time and think about how crazy like things changed day to day, you know Because I remember going into the 2020 election season february 2020 bernie sanders is like the presumptive Democratic nominee, you know people are saying Oh, it seems like trump will probably win again and then famously some other stuff happened in march of 2020 and I would say that so many unprecedented things happened every single month that I'm just like If there is one thing I have learned from my last presidential election 2020 is I will make no predictions because untold chaos Will probably unspool before we actually get there and I actually think that this theory has really held up Because I was on vacation and there had been a lot of talk about biden potentially stepping down from being the nominee Which I was following I didn't have like a ton of inside lines on that or anything, but I was like, I'm pretty sure if he would, it would happen during this time while I was on vacation.

So I, like, messaged my editor and I was like, I bet he's gonna step down while I'm on vacation. And in fact, instead there was an assassination attempt on Donald Trump. So I was like, even when I have made my prediction about the crazy thing that I think is going to happen, something is I hadn't even imagined happen.

So no prediction. I think just think about where, how you felt in September of 2020 and then how that changed between then and November of 2020 because of the sheer number of things going on. And then maybe use that as your grounding exercise. Yeah, that sounds great. Uh, I really appreciate hearing your thoughts and we'll have to have you back after the election.

And, uh, thanks again for stopping by to chat with me today. Yeah. Thank you so much. I was so excited. I was actually like at a WNBA game when you emailed me with a bunch of my bachelor squad and I was like, guys, guys, Dave Neil, just email me. Well, I'm happy you responded. Thanks again. Have a good one. Okay.

The rush hour is a twice daily pop culture and entertainment news podcast hosted by standup comedian, Dave Neil lives too short for a boring ride. So join Dave as he covers the top news stories of the day. Don't be caught clueless at the water cooler. The rush hour with Dave Neal features all the viral TikToks and podcast clips you need to hear.

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